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» Hihi - Introduce Yourself
Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:49 pm by eeemeee

» FanFiction
Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:01 am by Roy42

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» Just A Quick Question
Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:59 am by Roy42


    Finding Mary McGuffin

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    Roy42
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    Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:16 pm

    McGuffin: An object or device in a movie or book that serves merely as a trigger for the plot.

    Sure, the Little Mary McGuffin dolls are really rare and Candace's one is very precious to her, but Lawrence sold it for a whole dollar! Well worth it, clearly. Who else is Candace to turn to, but a pair of boy detectives, freshly inspired by film noir to help her track down a certain German accented, lab coat wearing buyer. In completely unrelated events, has getting Vanessa the object that earns her love for him prevented Doofenshmirtz from using his second hand Inator on the Tri-State Area? No, a missing On/Off switch has.

    Share your thoughts on this episode.


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    ChimneyVator

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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by ChimneyVator on Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:17 pm

    It's episodes like these that make me wonder why people think that cartoons are for children and children only. I loved all of the detective shout-outs as well as the revival of the Candace/Vanessa paralell; there's only so much of Candace dating Jermy and/or busting her brothers that I can take. Finally, all of the shipping took a rest for an episode, and Vanessa looks like she is finally growing up (to be quite evil).And it looks like Greevil is back on the scence! Way to save resources and reuse that inator, Doof!
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by DjangoKatie on Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:12 pm

    Olivia Olson performs a beautiful song in this one. Did anybody catch the CSI-themed music and how it merged into DEI?
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    Roy42
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:29 pm

    It'd be kind of hard to not catch that one, it was very very obvious.

    Yes, yes it… was.


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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:28 am

    It wasn't a bad episode, especially with Phineas doing all the monologing. I found that to be funny. I am also reminded of detective shows that I use to watch back in the day.

    The only thing was that I was like "what the heck.......?" at the end of the episode when Vanessa grabbed the doll from the little girl and then happily phoned Dr. Doofenshmirtz to tell him about it. I mean, what sort of message is that supposed to send?
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:34 am

    The kind of message that was plentiful about 15 years ago in the 90s when these sorts of TV shows were everywhere. Who cares if they play by the rules, it's a cartoon!


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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:43 am

    Roy42 wrote:The kind of message that was plentiful about 15 years ago in the 90s when these sorts of TV shows were everywhere. Who cares if they play by the rules, it's a cartoon!
    Well, the ending of the show has someone doing something nasty, in this case, rudely stealing a doll from a girl's hand. I dont think that is something likeable. Sure, it is a departure from the norm, which we need for the show, but that one really got me like "what?".
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:52 am

    I'll sum up the keywords of what could be a long rant, because I'm trying to finish a chapter of * quickly.

    Cartoon, evil, not real, 90s.


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    TheFraggable74

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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by TheFraggable74 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:56 am

    This episode would have been so awesome, if they hadn't resorted to the lost doll cliché...The detective parts were a nice shout out to all of those shows we know and love, full of references that we've come to love. Still, I think the plot of a lost/stolen doll could've been replaced with something else. It just seems like this episode, along with The Bully Code, are resorting to things we've already seen many more times than necessary. Archetypes can be good at times, but with a show like Phineas and Ferb, you have to switch them up in order to keep up the originality. I just hope the next huge batch of episodes is much better than this one, because this batch really just seemed to me like it could have been better.
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by ChatterBox on Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:06 am

    Suspect ...Why so much HATRED~?! Yes, I did see that they used that old "lost doll" thing and that was quite irritating, very useful for... useless complaining when you've ran out of things to whine about to your peers.

    I enjoyed Phineas's shouting at people such as, "Where's the Doll!?" and then taking a big swig of his beloved apple juice. The "Trouble was my middle name... well, actually it's Tromble. Sounds like 'trouble'..." was kind of amusing. Confused detective tries to relate his middle name to the word 'trouble'. Not only did I enjoy those two parts but during the interrigation (I'm not just making up words, am I?) with the store manager, "I know that! No, I don't know anything about that guy."

    It seemed as if Charlene's personality was slightly altered...? It just seemed as though she changed a slight. Not that I would really know, she's only showed up about two times and a quite short time slot; it doesn't provide enough clues to showcase her personality.

    Me, being the immature and German befriender, I quite enjoyed Doofenshmirtz's expressing of the stupidity of this world and all the inamimate objects that have betrayed us all (I mean, who DOESN'T have problems with finding a suitable switch?). 'Dummkopf' translates to 'idiot', 'pinhead', and many more -- much more exciting -- words! Very Happy

    I found the "you said I'd be the bets Dad ever if I got this for you!!" line and then, after ten years of searching for it, he finds it and gives it to her rather... cute. I loved his enthusiasm about finally become "World's greatest Dad". Very ky-yoot!

    All in all, I rate this episode a 7/10 (since when did we start critiqueing?). It just didn't have the originality 'Phineas and Ferb' is made of. Laughed at the jokes, loved the spoofs and refrences, relatable spaz moments by several of our favourites, and found a few new top 30 scenes. If only they hadn't stuck so closely with the archetype. I exprected they would switch it up just a tad... and that's a personal expectations, not media hype.

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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:15 am

    Our "complaining" is not useless, it is justfified. If YOU did not like something that you saw, then you would complain about it, or make some sort of comment about it, wouldn't you?
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:45 am

    It doesn't seem useless to me, but as for justified…

    All I gather from you and Frank is that you don't like the use of an old archetype, which means you've missed the point of the whole doll element, which is why I put the definition of 'McGuffin' at the start of the thread.

    A McGuffin is just something that moves the story along. The story of the missing doll isn't supposed to be important on Candace's side, it's about Phineas and Ferb being detectives; that's what the older crowd are supposed to recognise as the funny. The young kids are supposed to see this plot about a missing doll as something new and enjoy it, we are not. The doll is also not the main thing on Vanessa's side either, it's the fact that her dad got something for her that makes her realise that *song title*. The doll is just a McGuffin, it's only supposed to drive those two plots, while the Perry/Doofenshmirtz plot isn't affected by it at all.

    I can't help but feel you've missed the point of the episode because of this. Then again, I might also have enjoyed it so much because when I watch PaF I can understand the more intelligent and older humour that is intended for older audiences, plus I can easily get back into the mindspace of being a little kid to enjoy the humour targeted at young kids.


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    TheFraggable74

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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by TheFraggable74 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:55 am

    I know very well what a McGuffin is. And I'm fine with its use. But as ChatterBox said, this was a direct copy and paste from the standard archetype plot. It's just the same old song and dance by now. I said I liked the rest of the episode, and I just disliked them using the whole doll thing right out of the book. It was a good episode, but when you've seen the same plot device used so many times, it becomes very annoying when it pops up.
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    Roy42
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:25 am

    I repeat: I can't help but feel you've missed the point.


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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:41 pm

    Roy.......I don't think Frag or I missed the point. We simply did not like the idea for the episode as a plot. There is nothing really hard to understand there.
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:53 pm

    However I believe that what you two are seeing is that the 'missing doll' was the idea, which it wasn't.

    "The idea for the episode is Phineas and Ferb being detectives for the day."
    "How do they become detectives?"
    "Oh, why not put a McGuffin in there, like a missing doll or something?"
    "No, but some people might see the doll as the concept, not the McGuffin."
    "So why not name it a McGuffin?"
    "No, that doesn't seem obvious enough…"
    "There is no pleasing you."


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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:17 am

    The whole episode was detective themed via a missing McGuffin doll. We get that. But the point that you are missing is that we did not like the idea for the episode, and could have been better than it was.
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by PaFfanatic on Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:27 am

    I loved this episode! I do agree that the lost doll is kind of a cliche, but PaF tends to shake up things that have been used before. Both the PaF plots and the Perry/Doof plots were good, as well as the Candace/Vanessa interaction. Phineas narrating the whole thing just like an old detective movie was just plain awesome. The song was great as usual and extremely catchy. I'm usually more biased towards episodes that have 2 separate plots that have nothing to do with each other, but I have to say, Dan and Swampy did a fantastic job merging the 2 plots, as with Vannessesary Roughness.
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:57 am

    Right, so while Frank didn't like the use of the doll archetype, despite it not being the idea for the episode and just the catalyst, you specifically didn't like Phineas and Ferb being detectives; the idea for the episode.

    The reason I persist in instances like this is because it takes this long for you to elaborate more on saying "I liked the episode and this is a recount of parts of the episode with me giving no indication that they were my favourite parts of the episode." or "I didn't like the episode and these parts of the episode may or may not have been what I didn't like about it." and throughout all of that, you were claiming that it's justified disaffection. How is something justified when the arguments you're passing are:

    "I didn't like it."
    "It wasn't good."
    "I didn't like it." (again)

    What makes it even more curious is that you, Neerav, were only having trouble with the end of the episode at the start of this thread and seemed to have enjoyed the rest of the episode. Now you apparently didn't like the entire episode.

    Why does it seem like consistency issues just specifically follow me?

    Lastly, how is using a lost doll as a McGuffin in any way a reason for complaint? Yes, it's used a lot, but that doesn't mean that in any way it will be the 'same old song and dance' in one show than it is in another. It's what you use the McGuffin as an excuse for that makes the episode good or bad. The McGuffin was used that they could pay homages to detective and cop clichés, and far beyond that concept being a good idea, they pulled it off even better. Why is the fact that there was a doll in the episode a good reason to not like it?


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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:16 am

    This will be the last time I will repeat myself, since I feel like I am talking to a concrete block.

    The detective idea is good anywhere else, but for an episode of "Phineas and Ferb", I was not so much impressed with it. Yes, I do love detective stories, but in this case, it did not jive. Sure, the doll was the catalyst for the detective-themed episode, with some funny moments in there, but I stand by what I said before.

    Sorry, Roy, but if you are trying to convince us to say that the episode was good, it won't work. You have to understand that not everyone will "always" have the same opinion on something as you do.
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:34 am

    Okay, I don't know what you were repeating, but it wasn't the point of that first paragraph; you do like detective stories, but as a Phineas and Ferb episode you didn't enjoy it. That is the first time you have — at least clearly and precisely — made that argument.

    No, I'm not trying to convince anyone that it was good; I enjoyed it and I won't let your opinion affect my enjoying of a product. What I am, have been, and always do try to do, is understand why a person didn't enjoy something I find to be enjoyable. Up until this point, you hadn't been clearly saying why you didn't like the episode, so I am forced to persist with my arguments in the expectation that you will counter with an argument that will actually give me insight into your opinion on the episode that goes beyond "I liked/did not like it."

    Also there's the fact that you had said in another thread something to the effect of "I know what is a good episode and what isn't." which makes you sound a little smug and of an invisible higher judgement (that's my thing) that needs to be taken down a notch, even though I already got what you were trying to communicate, which is that you know what you like and what you don't, not that you know exactly what episodes are factually good and what factually aren't.


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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:53 am

    I stand by what I said, which is that I can tell a good episode from a bad one. Simple as that, and THIS episode wasn't good because I did not like the plot from start to finish with the detective thing, as I already mentioned, which I think you FINALLY understood after al this trying. In fact, thi, in the latest series of episodes, was just awful.......one can hope that the creators of the show don't go any lower than this in terms of episode quality.
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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by Roy42 on Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:00 am

    No, that's still to the limits of your knowledge; you can only tell what you like and what you don't. What you like and what you don't does not mean that an episode was good or bad. Were your opinion of the episodes a direct reflection of the quality of the episodes, then you'd be saying that no one could possibly have any reason to like it, there is absolutely nothing enjoyable about it, and various other derogatory slanders on the episode. However they are all disproved by the fact that I disagree and did enjoy the episode. I'm not saying that it's a fact that this episode was crafted from diamonds or anything, I'm just saying that I personally enjoyed the episode, you did not, and that's that. The only fact, is that it is an episode of Phineas and Ferb from season 2.


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    TheFraggable74

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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by TheFraggable74 on Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:00 am

    Neerav, just give up. You're going from intelligent speaking to somewhat inintelligible. Seriously, I can't understand what kind of point you're trying to make anymore. My point was that I didn't like the use of the very strictly used doll archetype to start up the plot. Even then, it's pretty minor in my opinion now. You're basically saying so many different negative things right now I can't tell what the hell you're saying besides "This episode sucks even though I like detective stories.", which really doesn't even make much sense either, considering you're basically saying that you don't like something that is basically a bunch of child-friendly homages to something you like.

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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

    Post by BigNeerav on Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:10 am

    The point I was making was why I did not like this episode, which I made clear, as well as the reasons why, and won't repeat myself.

    And Frag......if you read through my posts, you would better understand where I was coming from, which I made ABUNDANTLY clear in my last two posts with regards to the episode, since I was more elaborate as to my reasons for not liking this episode, more than the reaon that you mentioned, with hopes that the creators do a better job in making episodes that people would WANT to turn on the televsion and watch.

    There.......we can now start disussing other important points with regards to this episode.

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    Re: Finding Mary McGuffin

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